GasBuddy News Article

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Cleaner Biofuels from Non-Food Sources

Solveclimate.com -- By Stacy Feldman

Excerpts

"Cellulosic biofuel was once widely heralded as the key to cutting United States' dependence on foreign oil, without the adverse environmental effects of corn ethanol."

"The U.S. has set itself a goal of getting one billion gallons of home-grown fuel from corn stalks, wood chips and other non-edible waste by 2013 and 16 billion gallons by 2022, under the 2007 renewable fuels standard (RFS)."

"Cellulosic ethanol is seen as a promising alternative fuel because feedstock does not compete with food and can be grown on marginal lands that don't require much water. It is also perceived as a low-emissions substitute to corn-based fuels."

"Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS),...the U.S. can bring the first 10 to 20 commercial facilities online..."

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Submitted Aug 26, 2010 By: UncleCurt

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E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:2,403 Points:640,715 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Aug 29, 2010 1:38:19 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse honda0105, I must have missed the posts on this thread by members claiming that they are unwilling to try cellulosic ethanol. While ethanol from sugar/starch has been around a long time, we both know that cellulosic processes are new and as yet, unproven, so the "technology is [not really] there", right? Since ethanol from corn has the farmers and corn lobby to push it, while cellulosic ethanol does not, its not unreasonable to expect it to develop more slowly, don't you agree? The entire economic picture of any process must be examined in order to judge its viability. While cellulosic processes may benefit from less expensive, waste-product inputs, this saving must be balanced against a potentially more expensive pre-process and the loss of secondary, saleable outputs such as distiller's grains. I am not not opposed to any technology or alternative fuel, but a combination of enthusiasm and ignorance of the facts leads to lots of misunderstanding of "why" things are the way that they are. I just try to point these out. I don't think that the slow growth of cellulosic processes has anything to do with "unwillingness", but with the facts that I have pointed out above. Do you disagree specifically with any of these?
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,252 Points:1,141,025 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 27, 2010 4:04:19 PM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse E-Squirrel: I am not confusing anything about mysterious unwillingness. All you have to do is read the posts on this site to see just HOW many people are unwilling to even TRY to go w/ proven biofuels. Oh, yes, btw, I do hold a science degree in more than just BS-ing.
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:2,403 Points:640,715 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Aug 27, 2010 10:39:22 AM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse honda0105 asserts: "It's the willingness to do something new that's sorely lacking in the US these days." I don't think that there is any lack of willingness. In fact, Americans are generally known around the world for deviating from custom. What there is, is a general lack of knowledge about science and economics that permits the general public to realistically evaluate stories like this. As a friend who is a retired physics professor likes to say: 'People are willing to DO ANYTHING to save the environment, EXCEPT take a class in science'. Cellulosic ethanol "holds promise". Nobody in the world has yet demonstrated a production level plant producing ethanol this way that is competitive with alternatives. There are lots of different opinions, theories and proposals of how to do it; but these are still under development or just trying to demonstrate practicality. Don't confuse the slow, steady progress toward this goal with some mysterious unwillingness.
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,252 Points:1,141,025 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 27, 2010 3:13:57 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse the technology is there, the skills are there (maybe not in the US, but around the globe). It's the willingness to do something new that's sorely lacking in the US these days.
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,252 Points:1,141,025 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 27, 2010 3:12:09 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse as long as we use corn that would otherwise go to livestock or human consumption, or even better, land that could be used to farm food for the AMERICAN poor, we are wasting our resources by trying to make EtOH from food products.
RENEGADEGAS Champion Author Missouri Posts:12,049 Points:1,126,105 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 9:41:01 PM Ignore RENEGADEGAS Report Abuse jrsva...Your doing it again. Go back to my post and you will see I was commenting on a post from mstearno. He was the one talking about Fritos not I. As I said earlier, please fully read and comprehend the posts you are commenting on.
CobraLeader Champion Author New Jersey Posts:267,902 Points:1,200,750 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 9:14:40 PM Ignore CobraLeader Report Abuse ... Fool me once, SHAME on ME. ... ... Fool me twice, SHAME on YOU! ...
CobraLeader Champion Author New Jersey Posts:267,902 Points:1,200,750 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 9:13:06 PM Ignore CobraLeader Report Abuse ... I don't know what they are trying to do. Are they??? ... ... Keep talking about ???what may happen??? ... ... Put us to sleep with their prognostications??? ... ... Just talking and sounding professional without saying anything??? ... ... Double speak (again)??? ... [Edited by: CobraLeader at 8/27/2010 12:15:48 AM EST]
Quick68 Champion Author Columbus Posts:4,832 Points:757,825 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 9:12:25 PM Ignore Quick68 Report Abuse Why should we even think about this? Lets tread our grain for oil. I believe that the foreign oil countries should start paying for there grain.
danreino Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:6,270 Points:1,142,195 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 9:06:14 PM Ignore danreino Report Abuse I'll take 8,000 gallons for the VW that I'm going to buy.....
1988MR2guy Champion Author California Posts:4,395 Points:714,665 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:59:18 PM Ignore 1988MR2guy Report Abuse ........YAWN!
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,138 Points:1,145,025 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:56:30 PM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse RG, you were not talking about Fritos, you were talking about ethanol: "No food was going into ethanol either." That's either a blatant lie or ignorance of the facts. Either way it is totally wrong.
MiniFan Champion Author California Posts:2,223 Points:749,050 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:56:28 PM Ignore MiniFan Report Abuse another alternative fuel?
OGW Champion Author London Posts:3,337 Points:1,111,980 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:55:48 PM Ignore OGW Report Abuse Just get away from human or cattle food materials.
gasaholicMO Champion Author Missouri Posts:2,416 Points:469,750 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:51:31 PM Ignore gasaholicMO Report Abuse Too early to give cellulosic method a thumbs down.
sillywagon Champion Author New York Posts:10,800 Points:1,003,045 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:49:10 PM Ignore sillywagon Report Abuse How long would these subsidies for cellulose ethanol last?
RENEGADEGAS Champion Author Missouri Posts:12,049 Points:1,126,105 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:47:23 PM Ignore RENEGADEGAS Report Abuse jrsva...Does your blind ignorance have no ends or are you illiterate? He wasnt referring to animal feed as clearly stated in his post. He was talking about food for human consumption ie: "fritos". Really, you need to pay more attention to what has been written before making yourself look like a fool. This is the second time I have found your mistakes tonight. [Edited by: RENEGADEGAS at 8/26/2010 11:50:02 PM EST]
TRAIN RIDER Champion Author San Bernardino Posts:6,763 Points:2,297,910 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:46:04 PM Ignore TRAIN RIDER Report Abuse WE DO NEED TO CREATE FUELS OUT OF SOMETHING OTHER THAT OUR FOOD.
dinahf Champion Author Kansas City Posts:9,483 Points:1,447,095 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:44:11 PM Ignore dinahf Report Abuse Awesome!....We've been talking about this for years on this gasbuddy site.The sooner they do this thing, the better...!
ItsMorph Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:30,077 Points:2,720,080 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:42:51 PM Ignore ItsMorph Report Abuse
mdskier Champion Author Maryland Posts:8,488 Points:1,500,275 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:40:31 PM Ignore mdskier Report Abuse Cellulosic biofuel is the way to go. Switchgrass & scrap cornstalks. But we haven't reinvented the wheel on this. The answer is simple: -Just hire the people in Brazil who have been doing this for years.
ScottTee Champion Author Detroit Posts:2,083 Points:601,200 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:37:55 PM Ignore ScottTee Report Abuse I like the idea of cornstalks
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,138 Points:1,145,025 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:33:38 PM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse RG has it all wrong as usual. Today ethanol is being made from corn in the US, which could otherwise go into animal feed and to make other products which eventually become human food. Just because we do not eat field corn on the cob does not make it non-food.
EVBuddy Champion Author Nevada Posts:14,333 Points:2,567,565 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:28:55 PM Ignore EVBuddy Report Abuse And Bread. What happened to Solar?
RENEGADEGAS Champion Author Missouri Posts:12,049 Points:1,126,105 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:28:19 PM Ignore RENEGADEGAS Report Abuse mstearno...No food was going into ethanol either. Sadly some folks cant get that through thier thick skulls.
mstearno Champion Author Dayton Posts:5,862 Points:1,285,210 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:25:48 PM Ignore mstearno Report Abuse good no food is the only way to go makes no sense to save on gas and pay more for fritos
96sc1 Champion Author El Paso Posts:7,440 Points:1,141,455 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:24:14 PM Ignore 96sc1 Report Abuse "The U.S. has set itself a goal"? I don't think so.
signwiz Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,395 Points:1,349,080 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:21:50 PM Ignore signwiz Report Abuse has to scale up.
Bus561 Champion Author Lexington Posts:14,071 Points:2,752,030 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:12:52 PM Ignore Bus561 Report Abuse If it is no better than ethanol, then they can keep it and leave it alone.
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:6,112 Points:1,522,585 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:11:39 PM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse If it works. How much energy does it take to produce this stuff?
Lukus Champion Author Halifax Posts:6,021 Points:1,215,535 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:05:49 PM Ignore Lukus Report Abuse I had read that they were using some sugar beets in poor soils.
zeddieiv Champion Author Columbia Posts:5,651 Points:1,490,920 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:02:37 PM Ignore zeddieiv Report Abuse How about from former food sources? ;-)
ricker8 Champion Author Ontario Posts:3,128 Points:675,325 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:56:37 PM Ignore ricker8 Report Abuse sounds great, lets get some funding headed this way and get the ball rolling on production
oldiesman Champion Author New York Posts:4,211 Points:1,762,950 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:51:58 PM Ignore oldiesman Report Abuse I don't think it will be viable for a long time.
mecforyou Champion Author Iowa Posts:2,080 Points:890,475 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:45:46 PM Ignore mecforyou Report Abuse I don't know about taking every thing form the land and leaving nothing behind is good.
panama303 All-Star Author Denver Posts:790 Points:267,020 Joined:Jan 2005	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:44:23 PM Ignore panama303 Report Abuse Hurry up. Where the heck is it?
abcdMA Champion Author Worcester Posts:5,614 Points:1,113,275 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:40:42 PM Ignore abcdMA Report Abuse non food bio fuels need to be expanded
Ken2OD Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:6,673 Points:1,506,000 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:37:55 PM Ignore Ken2OD Report Abuse I had baked beans for lunch today. Quick, process my gas into bio fuel!
DrLyon Champion Author Michigan Posts:4,440 Points:751,905 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:34:51 PM Ignore DrLyon Report Abuse Using waste products, corn stalks, wood chips and non-edible waste--great idea...
waynemustang Champion Author Indiana Posts:4,661 Points:1,236,205 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:32:20 PM Ignore waynemustang Report Abuse Key to non-dependence on foreign oil is drilling and refining our own, NOT biofuels.
Chris46 Champion Author Dayton Posts:17,123 Points:1,672,420 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:30:40 PM Ignore Chris46 Report Abuse When Bio-fuel can be made from cow patties... THEN I will be excited!
PissedCanuck Champion Author Toronto Posts:5,138 Points:1,192,210 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:30:36 PM Ignore PissedCanuck Report Abuse Biofuels = crap that I don't need in my vehicle's fuel tank.
BKool Champion Author Michigan Posts:4,526 Points:1,753,300 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:28:45 PM Ignore BKool Report Abuse gettin' sick of this drivel...
paulg72 Champion Author Boston Posts:1,558 Points:543,375 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:24:14 PM Ignore paulg72 Report Abuse The govt. Should stop. Meddling with gas we should be able to buy pure gas or whatever we want the govt. Tells us what to eat what we use for gas how to raise our children and this is supposed to be a free country I bet in russia u can buy pure gas
MRED3 Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:3,626 Points:803,345 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:23:14 PM Ignore MRED3 Report Abuse Who in the world are the UCS? How much did that union give to the democrats to get Obama elected?
saleboss Champion Author Phoenix Posts:2,852 Points:963,585 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:22:40 PM Ignore saleboss Report Abuse I like that, getting energy from waste products!
paulydel Champion Author Delaware Posts:6,778 Points:686,970 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:21:59 PM Ignore paulydel Report Abuse What kind of milage per gallon?
jb107 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:7,213 Points:2,154,585 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:15:05 PM Ignore jb107 Report Abuse Anything to put corn back in the food chain.
firechief Champion Author New York Posts:1,802 Points:1,665,170 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:09:44 PM Ignore firechief Report Abuse interesting
amearly Champion Author Michigan Posts:9,745 Points:2,002,580 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2010 7:03:23 PM Ignore amearly Report Abuse I would support this more than any other as I'm tired of them using our food source to make a product most don't want.